Friday, April 21, 2006
Christian Koans
"...before Abraham was, I AM."
John 8:58
"Blessed is he who was, before he came into being."
Thomas 19:1
I knew the first saying from Jesus was a Zen-like statement (Tolle, The Power of Now, pp.104-5). Tolle explains it beautifully. The Thomas 19:1 quotation is like the Zen koan, "What was the face you had before you were born?" I didn't make the connection until I replied to a message in the Wisdom Reading Group. Haven't been in such a group since grad school back in 1989, and that was only a Bible reading group of grad students.
John 8:58
"Blessed is he who was, before he came into being."
Thomas 19:1
I knew the first saying from Jesus was a Zen-like statement (Tolle, The Power of Now, pp.104-5). Tolle explains it beautifully. The Thomas 19:1 quotation is like the Zen koan, "What was the face you had before you were born?" I didn't make the connection until I replied to a message in the Wisdom Reading Group. Haven't been in such a group since grad school back in 1989, and that was only a Bible reading group of grad students.
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Truth comes in many forms and from many places.
Sometimes I think the overarching belief in "God" just gets in the way. Sure does for me sometimes. Some of the more enlightened people I know don't even know it... and are atheists.
Sometimes I think the overarching belief in "God" just gets in the way. Sure does for me sometimes. Some of the more enlightened people I know don't even know it... and are atheists.
We don't know. The Middle East had trade with India and trade was back and forth, so we don't know if Buddhism which was what, 500 years old or less, had made it that far to Judea. Chances are that it hadn't since Jewish, Roman and Greek philosophers don't mention any of Buddha's teachings. The important thing is to see that Jesus was basically our Buddha, the Buddha of Western Civilization, and that he was put to death for his teachings, whereas Buddha was venerated as a teacher and later deified (which he didn't want) as was Jesus. Both were the same master, same Consciousness, in different bodies at different points in time. You are that Consciousness. So am I, but we have to still our minds to realize who we are.
The direct route of inquiry has shown to be very useful in seeing through the illusion, but less used it seems and unexplored in the western culture.
# posted by 
: 1:30 AM
: 1:30 AM
No comment.
However, let me tell you what I really think. This statement of Jesus could be the very foundation of modern Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamental, and Biblical Christianity.
How would I actually interpret it? Based on past knowledge, "I AM" here means GOD, YHWH, from "I AM THAT I AM" of the Old Testament. Therefore: Before Abraham was, GOD. Naturally. If you believe in the Hebrew or Jewish God. God came before Abraham.
What did Jesus mean by this statement? Again, from my early indoctrination it means: Before Abraham was, I existed and am existing. In short: I am God!
This seems to be the ordinary interpretation of most modern Christians. But I could be wrong; I know some sects that don't agree.
But what does this have to do with Buddhism and enlightenment?
Nothing. Many Buddhist, enlightened or unenlightened would consider this as outright illusory or delusional. Why? My view is: Anybody who claims himself to be the Son of God, therefore equal to God is not at all enlightened. Because in the first place a Hebrew God, Jewish God, Christian God or any Personal God, for that matter, does not exist, and anyone who says something like this is completely egoic, delusional, presumptuous, and probably psychologically unstable, to put it lightly.
This is just one of my many interpretations. This is the most careful one.
Nevertheless, it is subject to revision after some discussion. I would not want to be accused of blasphemy. Or of Antichristian tendencies.
However, let me tell you what I really think. This statement of Jesus could be the very foundation of modern Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamental, and Biblical Christianity.
How would I actually interpret it? Based on past knowledge, "I AM" here means GOD, YHWH, from "I AM THAT I AM" of the Old Testament. Therefore: Before Abraham was, GOD. Naturally. If you believe in the Hebrew or Jewish God. God came before Abraham.
What did Jesus mean by this statement? Again, from my early indoctrination it means: Before Abraham was, I existed and am existing. In short: I am God!
This seems to be the ordinary interpretation of most modern Christians. But I could be wrong; I know some sects that don't agree.
But what does this have to do with Buddhism and enlightenment?
Nothing. Many Buddhist, enlightened or unenlightened would consider this as outright illusory or delusional. Why? My view is: Anybody who claims himself to be the Son of God, therefore equal to God is not at all enlightened. Because in the first place a Hebrew God, Jewish God, Christian God or any Personal God, for that matter, does not exist, and anyone who says something like this is completely egoic, delusional, presumptuous, and probably psychologically unstable, to put it lightly.
This is just one of my many interpretations. This is the most careful one.
Nevertheless, it is subject to revision after some discussion. I would not want to be accused of blasphemy. Or of Antichristian tendencies.
Mark,
Let me tell you what I sometimes think about this:
It's not my business to criticize Jesus, or whoever. I am not better than anybody. I am also not more ancient or wiser than Jesus or Abraham. But it seems as if this is a very good way to provoke the Jews. But again I don't know why Jesus should do that.
One of the problems one encounters in relationships, any relationship for that matter is the idea that people get that somehow some people think they are more ancient or wiser than others. This is a big stumbling block. People don't like hearing this.
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Let me tell you what I sometimes think about this:
It's not my business to criticize Jesus, or whoever. I am not better than anybody. I am also not more ancient or wiser than Jesus or Abraham. But it seems as if this is a very good way to provoke the Jews. But again I don't know why Jesus should do that.
One of the problems one encounters in relationships, any relationship for that matter is the idea that people get that somehow some people think they are more ancient or wiser than others. This is a big stumbling block. People don't like hearing this.
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